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Shall we/must we desex our puppies?


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#1 Catsfriend

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:10 PM

I have no doubt that early desexing is good for kittens before passing them on, but what about puppies? Firstly, they often change hands at only 8 weeks, before "the balls drop", and secondly - it doesn't seem to be common practice at all in Australia. I just followed a discussion comparing Australia and Germany in this respect (in Germany, early desexing is considered normal) - please see copy from the "deathrowpets" forum below. My current situation is that, after years, I am again raising a litter of purebred White Shepherd puppies, and I want to pass them on desexed, unless they go to responsible registered breeders. However, other breeders from my club who have recently passed on inquiries of prospective puppy buyers to me, have "heard of this strange idea" and informed me, seriously concerned, that desexing before 6 months of age in dogs "is dangerous, particularly in bitches, because it causes urinary problems, the dogs won't be able to hold their urine any more..." which, of course, would be a disaster to the new owner. IF it is true! What do you think - is there really anything that speaks against early desexing, or is that just another old wives' tale? The reason why I decided in favour of early desexing for my puppies can be also read on the "deathrowpets" forum. You will find the story of a previous puppy of mine who changed hands several times (so no contactual arrangements between me and the original buyer which clearly stated that she must not be used for breeding can be enforced any more) and has now ended up with an unethical unregistered breeder in QLD who recently started producing very sick puppies (I have no idea who their father is) and selling them equipped with a copy of their mother's pedigree certificate - which makes the desperate buyers calling me for rescue, as the breeder won't take the sick puppies back. One puppy is already stuck in a QLD animal shelter, another one is undergoing expensive vet treatments ... it is a drama! ------------------------------------------------ Copy from other conversations at "deathrowpets": Germans are known for poor fashion with socks and sandals but there is nothing poor about their mandatory desexing program. Cesar Discusses Germany's Mandatory Spay and Neuter Program www.youtube.com 21 hours ago. 9 people like this.. Janet Biemond I think Germany is known for being one of the most advanced, ethical countries in Europe these days. They are light years ahead of Australia :) 6 hours ago Like.

#2 bruisersgirl

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:06 PM

Personally mine will go out on spay/neuter contracts unless going to reputable breeders. I try to avoid bitches cycling young and prompting an ''accidental litter'' or males being bred at a year and less so the age it must be done by is five months. Still young but not outrageously so. If the spay/neuter is not done I can reclaim the dog. So far I haven't had to use this contract, won't have to for a few years more.
Saving one dog may not change the world...but it will change the world for that one dog. " It is true that pits have a habit of grabbing on and not letting go but what their most likely to grab and not let go of is your heart, not your arm"

#3 Catsfriend

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:32 PM

Thank you for your answer, bruisergirl. I found and recently participated in a very long discussion on this topic at the "dogzonline" forum (it goes over dozens of pages, under the heading "Desexing contracts") and found out that what you do is quite common. The answer to my question, which I found there, was not to my liking, but we must live with it. I hoped early desexing would be just as easy, safe and unproblematic as for kittens, but it is obviously not. Studies were cited that it leads to up to 70% increase of hip dysplasia (particularly in large dogs as mine), adverse reactions to vaccinations in about 30% and, indeed, lots of urinary problems, just to name a few issues connected with early desexing. So, I am afraid that very thorough vetting of buyers and making sure that they take contracts seriously is the only way to go. The best advice given there was: Keep the contract short, clear and easy to understand - and state to each point which penalty will apply if the condition is not met. For example: If no proof of desexing is submitted to the breeder by the age of 16 months, the buyer has to pay another $600 to this account .... Or: If breeding activity is proven from this dog (e.g. by published sales ads for puppies) all the payments received for puppies must be donated to the RSPCA and the bitch must be returned to the breeder .... Or, as a positive incentive instead of a punishment: The breeder agrees to cover 50% of the desexing cost if the surgery is done within 12 months after purchase; if not, this offer forfeits.

#4 bruisersgirl

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE(Catsfriend @ Mar 1 2012, 12:32 PM) [snapback]15979[/snapback]
Thank you for your answer, bruisergirl. I found and recently participated in a very long discussion on this topic at the "dogzonline" forum (it goes over dozens of pages, under the heading "Desexing contracts") and found out that what you do is quite common. Common yes but whether it is really effective or enforced is up for debate.Some breeders will and do let contracts slide when they can't afford to enforce or don't really care about enforcing it. Sad but true. The answer to my question, which I found there, was not to my liking, but we must live with it. I hoped early desexing would be just as easy, safe and unproblematic as for kittens, but it is obviously not. Studies were cited that it leads to up to 70% increase of hip dysplasia (particularly in large dogs as mine), adverse reactions to vaccinations in about 30% and, indeed, lots of urinary problems, just to name a few issues connected with early desexing. So, I am afraid that very thorough vetting of buyers and making sure that they take contracts seriously is the only way to go. The best advice given there was: Keep the contract short, clear and easy to understand - and state to each point which penalty will apply if the condition is not met. For example: If no proof of desexing is submitted to the breeder by the age of 16 months, the buyer has to pay another $600 to this account .... Or: If breeding activity is proven from this dog (e.g. by published sales ads for puppies) all the payments received for puppies must be donated to the RSPCA and the bitch must be returned to the breeder .... Or, as a positive incentive instead of a punishment: The breeder agrees to cover 50% of the desexing cost if the surgery is done within 12 months after purchase; if not, this offer forfeits. Those are some interesting ideas. Frankly if you breed a dog out of my kennel that was on a spay/neuter contract and I have proof you have done it the dog is taken, fixed, and returned to the owner along with a bill for the cost of the surgery and my expenses on the dog while it was in my care. A bitch if found with a litter will be taken, altered, all of the puppies homed and altered by me and the mother returned if the owner wishes but the bill for the bitches' and litters' care will still be sent regardless of if they want the dog back. If she is found pregnant the litter is aborted. That system seems pretty straightforward and clear to me as well as fair.
My responses in blue.
Saving one dog may not change the world...but it will change the world for that one dog. " It is true that pits have a habit of grabbing on and not letting go but what their most likely to grab and not let go of is your heart, not your arm"

#5 Wild

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

You are in Australia? You need to find out what you can put in a contract. It varies from state to state in the U.S. In the U.S. many breeders hold the AKC/pedigree papers until the puppy has been spayed or neutered. In Canada, you can't do this. Once a puppy leaves your home your rights may disappear. You may not be able to keep track of the puppy once it leaves your care. I plan on breeding in a couple of years and am concerned about the same thing.

#6 lcownie11

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:04 PM

I decided to desex my dog when he is 2 years old. since then he start to gain weight. I don't know if it is connected to desexing.
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#7 Catsfriend

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 08:11 PM

@ Wild: I live in Australia. Here, we are free to word the contracts as we like. @ lcownie11: It is very common that dogs (and also cats and other animals) gain weight after desexing. It is a hormonal thing, and they usually also lower their physical exercise level. Just reduce the amount of food.




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